5D Mark III deluje sve gluplje i gluplje. I pored nespornih kvaliteta koje poseduje, cena za koju se sada može dobiti praktično DVA komada supersvežeg D600 je blago rečeno imbecilna.
Da budem iskren, ja uopšte nisam shvatio ni šta je komentator hteo da kaže?
Ja na komentar sasvim sigurno neću da odgovaram, jer je očigledno po sredi provokacija koju je tako lako ispljunuti kad postoji tolika doza anonimnosti.
Trebaju da malo više obrate pažnju na sitnice koje nerviraju ljude i na način kako da to poprave nakon što se gluposti konstatuju. Sadašanja praksa gde se za svaki gaf, bez izuzetka, prave ludi, nije dobra poslovna praksa.
Nikon issues service advisory on D600's dust issue (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/02/22/Nikon-issues-service-advisory-for-D600)
Nikon has released a service advisory for its D600 digital SLR. Based on user complaints, it addresses the widely-reported issue of dust and dirt accumulation on the camera's sensor. In the advisory, Nikon has belatedly acknowledged that at the point where dust becomes visible in images, 'removal may be difficult using normal measures' and advises customers who have exhausted conventional cleaning options to 'consult your nearest Nikon service center', whose technicians will 'examine the camera thoroughly, and service it as needed.'
Although the statement is short on detail - noticeably it offers no explanation of why the D600 specifically is affected in this way, it's good to see that Nikon has finally acknowledged that some D600 owners have indeed seen real problems with dust accumulation on their sensors, which are outside of the normal scope of expectations when using modern DSLRs.
We noted this issue in our in-depth review of the D600 last year (and have been asking Nikon for more information ever since), but apart from a general statement explaining that sometimes, DSLR sensors need cleaning, today's service advisory is the first time that Nikon has publicly addressed the problem.
Nikon Europe posted a short article dealing with the D600 dust issue. Not exactly as clear as Canon's, and Nikon doesn't exactly admit to the excess lubricant issue many have also experienced. Here's the shorthand of what you should do, if Nikon need to do this again:
Clearly state what went wrong.
Say you're sorry, directly.
Make amends.
State how you'll make sure not to repeat the mistake.
Request forgiveness.
Nikon's service note mostly messes this up. First, apparently the dust is at fault. Next, you're at fault if you haven't tried all the remedies listed in the manual. Only then will Nikon "examine" your problem and deal with it "as needed." But, of course, it may only "reduce this issue."
So let me try to write what Nikon should have:
"Dear D600 user:
It has come to our attention that some cameras were shipped from the factory with dust and excess lubricant that shows up as spots in your final image. The in-camera cleaning system does not remove these foreign objects from the filter over the sensor, thus additional cleaning action is needed to make your camera function the way you expect it to.
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this problem has caused you. To make things right, we will clean your sensor and make your camera function as you expect, at no cost and with as little hassle as possible. Just contact us via <fillintheblank> to get that process started. However, sometmes using a blower brush as outlined on pages 304-305 of the User's Manual may be all that's necessary to fix the problem, so we humbly suggest that you try that first.
Again, we apologize for this problem. We take issues like this seriously, so we are examining our quality control at the factory and trying not only to identify how this happened for some cameras, but also identify ways to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Please forgive us and give us a chance to make amends by getting your camera clean and functioning as expected. We realize you have a choice of brands to provide your photographic needs. We want you to know that we are aware that we didn't live up to your expectations for our products here. We didn't live up to our own high expectations. Rest assured that when we do mess up as we did here, we'll make it right.
Thank you for your previous support, and please give us the chance to earn your future support, as well.
Sincerely,
A Better Nikon"
Shortly after I wrote this, I got the following email from a D600 user:
I initially noticed the problem at around 2700 clicks, and it was exactly as others have described on the various forums: a series of black spots on the top left of images, which weren't affected by the camera's self-clean function. I took the camera to the Nikon Salon in Tokyo (thankfully a relatively quick trip for me), and they offered to clean it for free.
The dust spots had visibly returned by 4000 images, and I took it back to Nikon but this time they charged me 1000 yen ($13). I was annoyed, but based on what I read on the internet it seemed like this was going to be a short-lived problem.
I am now at 6000 clicks, and the dust has returned with a vengeance. Again, centered on the top left of images. I took my camera back to Nikon and after a bit of arguing with 5 different people (complicated by the fact that I don't speak Japanese), my camera has been sent to the Nikon factory for servicing, which they say will take a week. They tried to charge me full price for this service, because I have a USA warranty which doesn't cover worldwide service (who knew?), but I was able to convince them that they should do it for free.
And there we have the reason why Nikon's posted answer--only in Europe so far that I know of--is all wrong. "Service it as needed" seems to be "we'll try cleaning it once." Top that off with: "Sorry, no amends because you're not where you're supposed to be."
Is this really the way to treat customers who encounter a problem caused by the factory on a US$2000 item? Initially, I gave Nikon some slack on this issue. But their non-response has now put them back in my penalty box. Just say you goofed up and clean the dirty cameras, guys. So far all Nikon has managed to do is prolong five months of user complaints about the D600's propensity to wreck images with dust and lubricant in quantities beyond any reasonable expectations. Does Nikon really think that this isn't slowing D600 sales? If they can't see the connection, then maybe I should start publishing some of the other emails I'm getting.
I made a comment about Nikon shooting their sales in the foot by the way they're treating the D600 dust/lubricant issue (next story). Within minutes I received:
"I have waited to buy a D600 because of the dust and oil issue to see how Nikon would respond."
"I am one of those film holdouts...couldn't pull the trigger because of the poor dust/oil reputation of the D600."
"Will reserve buying a D600 till it all sorts out.
And some more from this morning:
"I'm definitely still waiting for Nikon to make a[n FX] camera without major problems."
"Because of the recent quality issues I am very reluctant to upgrade to the D800."
"I've waited while Nikon fixes/denies the focus & dirt problems. I can't be the only guy with the income to buy who is making the same calculation."
"I was this close to pulling the trigger [on a D800]...but the AF issues put me off. I guess I'll wait for a D900."
"I am not rich but I can free up funds for a D600 or D800 if I wanted to. But I have been holding off since I don't want to test drive for Nikon."
Used the "Was this answer helpful" link on the service advisory page to tell Nikon: "[I'm] not buying the D600 until they let me know that they have actually resolved [the problem]."
"I'm guessing that while a future D7100 buyer may not have considered the D600 or D800 they are likely aware of the QA issues." which was immediately following in my In box by:
"I would have ordered a D7100 last week to replace my D90. However I have no interest in buying a product with flaky AF [and] that contains the sweepings off the factory floor."
"Count me in with the others who have written you about holding back from buying a D600 or D800 owing to QC issues. I would have purchased FX months ago if not for these issues."
Since I posted that article, I've received at least a couple of dozen like responses within hours. Let's see, 24 x US$2500 = US$60,000 in lost sales. Add those to the hundreds of similar ones I've already received and my little Web site is observing a mid-six figure impact on Nikon's sales. Is anyone aware of any survey from Nikon that asks the question "are you more reluctant to buy a high-end Nikon than before" and why? Surely I can't be the only person that sees the lost sales problem. (And yes, I have a vested interest here: more D600 and D800 camera sales implies more book sales for me eventually.)
Gee, Nikon, you had to lower your sales estimates for the year. You blamed that on "making too much inventory just in case there was another flood." You think it might be a different reason, though? Like "we're not fessing up to your QA struggles?"
Here's the thing: the person likely to buy a US$2000-3000 Nikon FX DSLR is not new to the SLR/DSLR camera market. You generally don't graduate high school and pop for your first serious camera, a D600. Most folk that are buying these high-end cameras are (or at least used to be) loyal, long-time Nikon users. Even Nikon themselves suggested that D7000 users should step up to the D600 (rather than wait for the D7100, as it now turns out ;~).
If the US$2000-3000 FX buyers are not loyal, long-term Nikon users then they're Canon or Minolta/Sony SLR/DSLR users who have decided the grass is now greener on the other side and are convinced that Nikon's offering this time is tempting enough to switch. But that grass doesn't look so green if the left side doesn't focus right and you get hundreds of dust particles for thousands of shots that the dust-removal system doesn't actually remove.
Let's put a number on things. Yes, it'll be a somewhat arbitrary number, but let's do it anyway. Let's say that just 5% of the potential buyers are put off by Nikon's refusals to acknowledge a clear issue on both the D600 and D800. We're up to what, 70,000 US D800 purchasers in one year? 5% works out to be about 3700 lost sales. That's US$9.35 million dollars in lost sales to NikonUSA (US$11 million at retail prices). Now we have to start adding D600 lost sales to that.
You can clean a lot of sensors right for the amount of money that Nikon is likely losing in sales.
Oh, and I just noticed this in Nikon's manual for the D600 (page 300): "Dust or other foreign matter inside the camera may cause damage not covered under warranty." Gee, even when it was put there in the factory? ;~)
pa ni canon nije bolji. Guma je žnj pa izaziva kod nekih iritaciju. To je kad aparat od realnih 1ooo€ prodaješ za 6ooo€. Sreća njihova te ova dva proizvođača nemaju konkurenciju...Greška u koracima! Vidim da si naseo na spin domaćeg "časopisa", pa da Ti pojasnim par činjenica:
Koliko puta sam držao 1D mkIII u rukama? :)Prvo, postoji sasvim jednostavan razlog zašto sam postavio takvo pitanje.
Jel moram da ga držim da bih mogao diskutujem ili da pročitam šta su svojevremeno govorili profesionalci poput Rob Galbraith-a i Chuck Westfall-a. Sem toga to vaše "držanje u rukama" nešto ne donosi objektivne rezultate jer sam ovde pročitao masu dezinformacija o recimo D800 koji ste "držali" rukama (očigledno nedovoljno dugo).
Što se tiče dezinformacija o D800 rećiću nešto i o tome. Pre svega tačno je da nisi pomenuo misteriozni AF problem o kome se pričalo i koji vrlo verovatno nikada nije ni postojao ili je postojao na nekom smešnom procentu primeraka. Ali je isto tako tačno da se mesecima od izlaska D800 vodi jedna pro-canonska kampanja o kobajagi lošim skin tonovima na D800 u kojoj si svakako učestvovao i ti jer je sve krenulo od onog tvog test primerka.Nije lepo da meni imputiraš nešto što ja nisam pisao. Ja ne mogu da utičem (a i ne želim) na subjektivno pisanje drugih. Meni lično skin tonovi na Nikonu ne leže, ali oni na D800 nisu ni malo lošiji, nego na bilo kojem drugom Nikonu. Ja uspevam da ih doteram u okvir tolerancije onoga što želim, u najvećem broju slučajeva. Lakše to postižem na Canonu, ali nije tačno da ne može na Nikonu. NEKO NE PRISTAJE na bilo kakvo mincanje i želi verniji rezultat odmah-za-odmah. Ko sam ja da ga ubeđujem u suprotno?
Tvoj drugar koji je bio s tobom, da sad ne pominjem ime čoveka, koji je inače vlasnik 5dmkIII (naravno) uporno je prosipao priče po DZ o tome kako D800 daje mrtvačku boju kože. Kad god smo dolazili do toga da se pokažu problematični primeri završavalo se na tome da on kaže... ne znam, to je bio stormov primerak aparata. I tako u krug i tako mesecima. Eno pogeldaj temu na DZ o tome. Na svakoj 2-3 strani čovek palamudi nekakve gluposti o bojama bez ikakvog osnova i potrebe. A sa druge strane ja sam uporno govorio da su to čiste dezinformacije, da niko od imenih ozbiljnih fotografa na svetskom nivou koji su testirali oba aparata i D800 i 5dmkIII nije imao nikakavu zamerku na boje kod D800, čak šta više. Takođe nebrojano puta sam dao na uvid moje semplove i fullsize jpeg fotke i obrađene i neobrađene i NEF fajlove i pitao da li nešto tu nije u redu i nije bilo nikakvih zamerki ali i dalje, opet, idemo u krug i pričamo o nekakvim problemima koji ne postoje.
Razumem ja da ste vi mahom Canondžije i da je ovo canonski forum...Naravno da nije... ovo je fotografski forum, a ko je glasniji... to je samo do članstva. ;)
Dakle nadam se da shvataš razlike o kojima pričam i do koje mere sve ide. Kada neko sranje napravi Nikon onda je to kataklizma i o tome se razglaba mesecima, kada sranje napravi Canon onda treba da uzmemo i držimo isti rukama da bi se uopšte kvalifikovali da to iznesemo na forum. Canonska 85ica je vasionsko staklo, Nikonska nije ni do kolena. Canonska 135ica je intergalaktičko staklo, a Nikonska je sranje. Đura-bloger je najkul profesionalac jer je hvalio Canon, a blatio Nikon. DxO je grupa diletanata jer na testovima bolje kotiraju Nikon nego Canon. Aman bre više, evo mene ste za primer, kao nekadašnjeg korisnika Canona, a sadašnjeg Nikona smorili više i to onako žešće i polako sam se povukao iz skoro svih tehničkih tema i trudiću se da tako ostane jer ne vidim nikakvu potrebu da više gubim vreme u objašnjavanje onoga što je svakome ko želi da sazna - jasno. Ponekad mi se "otme" da se upustim u neku širu priču poput ove sada i onda ću tu da stanem i dalje da nastavim da gledam svoja posla i radim ono šta radim sa opremom koja je po meni bolja i to je to. Pomoćiću svakome u forumu koliko mogu onoliko koliko vremena imam i eto. Dosta s moje strane.Preteruješ. Baš zato što imaš potrebu da braniš KOMPANIJU od kritika. Ne kapiram to, uopšte. Nismo deca, pa da se ložakamo na takve stvari.
... Ali nije pisano da mu ne leži već da su boje mrtvačke, da Nikon ima problem sa koloritom i tako slične nebuloze i to je izašlo iz jedne iste test kujne - tvoje.Voleo bih da ovo ne zvuči tako kako zvuči, ali previše je očigledno da bi moglo da se protumači kao izvučeno iz konteksta.
E sad što se tiče ljudi na forumu smatram da Zoran Rodić i Storm48 imaju nadmen stav.
Na takmičenja ne idu ne zato što nisu dobri nego namešteno.Gde je to i sta namesteno, ne kapiram!?
E sad što se tiče ljudi na forumu smatram da Zoran Rodić i Storm48 imaju nadmen stav.Da si od juce na forumu, pa da donekle i razumem tvoj zakljucak, ovako ponovo ne kapiram!!
Zato vam kazem vreme je za jedno sire okupljanje po ovom lepom vremenu , da se ispricamo kao ljudiMislis na Konjarnik, Sumice...stari kraj, dolecem!!!
Ja sedim pored argona da mu obajsnim sta je nikon i da mu otvrim ociJa cu s druge strane, da ne "zastrani" ;D ;D
Uostalom, kakav aparat ... takva i tema.Gresis Rodicu (ja necu da te opisujem kakav si :P ja se samo drzim misljenja o temi)
ali ima i onih koji nalaze mane mazdi 6Ja takve ljude jos nisam sreo 8) ;D
Citatali ima i onih koji nalaze mane mazdi 6Ja takve ljude jos nisam sreo 8) ;D
... nemaju svi taj problem sa mrljama a i oni sto imaju vlasnici im kaze to oprastaju zarad kvaliteta koji pruza pa i u odnosu placeno-dobijeno.